Mar 9, 2024
Live on a strict budget and get out of debt as soon as possible. That's usually the advice given by personal finance expert Dave Ramsey to callers on his show.
However, real estate mogul Grant Cardone, warns it doesn't apply to most Americans and is only for "idiots" prone to overusing credit.
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“People use credit cards too much in this country ... They borrow money for Gucci belts and try to pretend to be somebody they’re not," he said in an interview with DJ Vlad. “If you’re an idiot, go listen to Dave.” Cardone clarified that he uses credit cards himself, but he makes sure to never owe any interest.
According to the entrepreneur, most Americans suffer from saving too much, being too conservative and not taking enough risk. “For those that want to get wealthy, at some point you’re going to leave Dave’s advice and you’re going to start watching what wealthy people do,” he said.
He believes using leverage is necessary if you want to move to the next level. "If you want to build a $4 billion real estate portfolio you're going to have to use debt," he added.
"Well the debt you're talking about is not the debt that he's talking about," said DJ Vlad, to which Cardone replied, "That's right. 100%."
So are "most Americans" saving too much?
The U.S. personal saving rate calculated by the Bureau of Economic Analysis was 3.8% in Jan. 2024. This is the percentage of people's incomes left after they pay taxes and spend money. Historically, the saving rate has averaged about 6.2%, said Gus Faucher, chief economist of PNC Financial Services Group, to USA Today.
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A recent survey from Bankrate said that only 44% of U.S. adults would pay an emergency expense of $1,000 or more from their savings. Thirty-five percent would use a credit card, take out a personal loan or borrow from family and friends.
Does America have a credit card debt problem?
Cardone does not think that overspending with credit cards is a widespread problem.
Nevertheless, considering the increasing levels of credit card debt in the U.S., Ramsey’s guidance may still hold weight.
According to the latest data from the New York Fed, credit card balances surged $50 billion in Q4 2023 to $1.13 trillion — a new all-time high.
Carrying credit card debt can be costly. Forbes Advisor says the average credit card interest rate in America currently sits at 27.94%.
Cardone recognized Ramsey’s contribution to people’s financial health.
“I think Dave’s great for most people that just want to figure out how to get out of debt. He’s done a great job,” Cardone remarked. “But I’m not going to take Dave’s advice to build a real estate portfolio because if you want to build a $4 billion real estate portfolio, you’re going to have to use debt.”
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Building a real estate empire
Cardone knows a thing or two about real estate. His private equity firm Cardone Capital boasts a multifamily portfolio of assets under management valued at over $4 billion.
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In such ventures, debt can be a useful tool.
“While it’s true that too much debt can be a bad thing, it can be one of the most powerful tools in a real estate investor’s arsenal,” Cardone wrote in a blog post.
He explained that there is good debt and bad debt. Bad debt includes things that do not put money in your pocket, such as credit cards and car payments. Good debt, on the other hand, are investments that eventually help you build wealth.
“Real estate is the best example of good debt because it has the potential to generate both capital appreciation and cash flow,” Cardone noted.
These days, there are multiple ways to tap into real estate.
You can take on debt to directly purchase rental properties or you can buy shares of publicly-traded real estate investment trusts (REITs). You can also explore crowdfunding platforms that allow you to own a stake in private REITs or a percentage of physical real estate properties, like apartments, commercial buildings and even plots of land.
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Jing is an investment reporter for MoneyWise. He is an avid advocate of investing for passive income. Despite the ups and downs he’s been through with the markets, Jing believes that you can generate a steadily increasing income stream by investing in high quality companies.
